Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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JuniorChubb
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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by JuniorChubb »

What an interesting day FF4 was...

IMO all the ramblings of this thread have been blown away by getting your hands and eyes on the 'evidence'.

If the cards really are from Toni his reputation is in bits (lets see if he can re-assemble that).
I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything...

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by mr_palitoy »

Maulster79 wrote:Jason- we saw cards today from JJ who says they are from Toytoni.

We only has his word.

I will contact a friend tomorrow to clarify the transaction.

While it does look likely, this is someone's word and not 100% proof.
This is true. Maybe we should all be posting our sales email correspondences with Toni to back up claims we have bought stuff from Toni.

JJ keeps his receipts. Maybe he has some for them?

:)

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by Caswellbot »

Hi guys, obviously a lot of folk have been down at the FF4 event today but it seems this thread has been romping on. Today was a busy day at Fordingbridge. It was great to meet up with a lot of collectors and talk all things vintage. Jason Joiner brought along some very interesting carded figures which he says were bought by a collector in Coventry who bought them from Toytoni at a toy fair at Donnington Park. Grant (Maulster) may be able to verify this in time as he is in contact with someone who knows the person who alledgedly bought these from Toni. Hopefully he can confirm whether or not what Jason is saying is verifiable.

For now at least, they are proof that someone at some point was definitely trying to seal these cards with limited success. A number of methods have been used of varying qualities. I will try to highlight a few of these methods. There were 17 cards in total and I took photos of nearly all of them. There was also an ESB GM 45 Back Hammerhead which had come clean off the card leaving a bubble (with spray adhesive on it) and a virtually mint cardback which I cant believe I missed photographing although this was 45 min photograph session! I would like to add that of the 17 cards we looked at about 4 looked like they might be ok. The rest were either like frankenstein experiments or near forgeries of the real seal.

Spray Mount - Spray Adhesive Method? ESB Leia General Mills 45 back (Blue Blaster?) Notice the mottled texture under the seal of the bubble indicating the use of a spray adhesive. The back of the card is perfectly flat. It doesnt look like any pressure/ machine was used to bond the bubble to the card.

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037 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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038 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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039 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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040 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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041 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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042 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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043 by Caswell2009, on Flickr

Iron Method? Palitoy ROTJ Pale Blue Fett - Palitoy 65 Back - (Printing alignment error on card.) Note the dragging scuffs of the card which move away from the bubble in an upwards diagonal movement. There is also a triangle shaped indent in between the twin stem of the bubble which gave birth to the idea that this may have been done with a normal household iron. (Diagnosis courtesy of Lee Bullock) The puckering around the bubble also suggests uneven heating.

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066 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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067 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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068 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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069 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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071 by Caswell2009, on Flickr

Also Iron Method? Hoth Trooper Palitoy 65 Back - same scuff marks as the Fett. Malheated bubble. Also check the area around the hanger tab where it looks like there is an indent of another hanger tab where another card was resting on top. V shaped imprint at stem.

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077 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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078 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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079 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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079 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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080 by Caswell2009, on Flickr


Brush on Adhesive Method? Boba Fett Pale Blue - ROTJ 65 Palitoy Back - The glue looks different on this. It is not speckled/ mottled like the leia and instead looks like it may have been applied with a brush? Its a bit of a messy job as there are traces of glue residue smeared around the cardback. Glue couldnt be used to stick the twin stem area at the bottom so again it looks like an iron was used.

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090 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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091 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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093 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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094 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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095 by Caswell2009, on Flickr

Dare I say it, this one looked ok? 2-1-B Metallic Version GM 45 Back. Better cleaner seal which looked crystal clear. The black underneath the card actually looked black. There is also evidence of pressure being applied to the back of the card to seal the card and bubble.

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072 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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073 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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074 by Caswell2009, on Flickr
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076 by Caswell2009, on Flickr

Please click on any of the photos to enlarge and see the other photos of all the cards and to see the photos from what was a very enjoyable day in Fordingbridge. Thanks David for organising it! :D
Last edited by Caswellbot on Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by _Lee_ »

I will say one thing-at least Jason Joiner had the bollocks to front up to people about this,which is a lot more than someone else has done :evil:

Fairpay to him for that.

Such a sad time for collecting.I know a few friends have been affected by this,and they are not happy as you an guess.I dont think we need anymore proof-he has destroyed a huge part of this hobby with his actions.
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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by escapist »

Bramistuta25 wrote:
escapist wrote:Can you do it in haiku form next time Bram?
I've just tried to be clever and figure out what Haiku is... Wikipedia has it, but I'm confused.

I can write it in a poem if you want??
Ha fail on my part. Was meant for Maulster! How embarrassing.

*that was a shit attempt at Haiku* Back to the real shit.....
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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by lee gray »

Why exactly would Jason J even buys these in the first place if he knew they came from toytoni originally when he also knew Toni puts them on cards himself...seems odd, maybe the miscards are from same place too ?

Still would like to meet Jason though as the past is the past and always turn up at his shows so next time will say hi.
Last edited by lee gray on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by JuniorChubb »

Palitoy78 wrote:I will say one thing-at least Jason Joiner had the bollocks to front up to people about this,which is a lot more than someone else has done :evil:

Fairpay to him for that.
JuniorChubb likes this :D
lee gray wrote:Why exactly would Jason J even buys these in the first place if he knew they came from toytoni originally when he also knew Toni puts them on cards himself...seems odd, maybe the miscards are from same place too ?
These are not from JJ's collection, they are from a collection of someone he knows, they are all 'supposedly' originated from TT.
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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by Bramistuta25 »

I know its not funny, but you wouldn't want Toni to iron ya shirt for work... I will check his the next time I see him!!
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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by bobbybobs »

Great post Chris, thanks for that.

That Hoth stormtrooper 65 is almost exactly like mine. It's like seeing double. Same dodgy seal (particularly at the bottom of the bubble), tab holder indents (two on mine) and the same scratch marks on the front of the card (across the ROTJ logo).

I actually posted about this figure in RS last April as I thought it was a reseal (my first SW vintage purchase).

The thread is below and there are photos. Hard to see from the photos but I can tell you that it has very similar scratch marks across the card in the exact same position. Almost like an animal has clawed it.

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1097441/

Christian

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by Caswellbot »

bobbybobs wrote:Great post Chris, thanks for that.

That Hoth stormtrooper 65 is almost exactly like mine. It's like seeing double. Same dodgy seal (particularly at the bottom of the bubble), tab holder indents (two on mine) and the same scratch marks on the front of the card (across the ROTJ logo).

I actually posted about this figure in RS last April as I thought it was a reseal (my first SW vintage purchase).

The thread is below and there are photos. Hard to see from the photos but I can tell you that it has very similar scratch marks across the card in the exact same position. Almost like an animal has clawed it.

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1097441/

Christian

Thanks Christian, Where did you buy that carded Hoth trooper mate?.

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by lee gray »

Several of the twim stem bubble figures i had also had little air gaps where it was not completely sealed, its certainly a weird shape that palitoy did with these where theres virtually no strong edge to seal tight.

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by bobbybobs »

UK ebay. I don't think the seller was a SW collector and it was the only item he was selling.

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by tigerham »

EDIT: Sorry, being an idiot. ~:S
Last edited by tigerham on Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by skywalker »

God I did not think we would see evidence this damning,,, looks like he has profected his technique over time.

Before was accusations and hearsay, but this is hard evidence in my eyes..

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Re: Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Ja

Post by tiefighterboy »

I have not seen any hostility....so I am at loss to your statement.

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