Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by edd_jedi » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:25 am

You guys are picking holes in a couple of minor ways things were worded, yet completely ignored the entire stack of evidence momike just posted? Unbelievable.

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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by edd_jedi » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:26 am

Lindo wrote:frank says he has no idea whats wrong with it but hey might as well throw it in there as fake, I don't understand this, how can it be said that something is wrong when you have no idea if it is?
What Frank means is he has no idea what baggie type it is supposed to be. Quite simple really - it is not a known baggie type and/or figure combo.

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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by edd_jedi » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:32 am

finestcomics wrote:Did you, or did you not post these words?

Image
I have edited that line to say they are known to be fake and sold by Jeff.

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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by edd_jedi » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:37 am

Bonsai_Tree_Ent wrote:The central issue regards one of the top baggie dealers selling fakes, but there are a number of smaller debates taking place around that. One of those is the ethics of outing without giving the 'bad seller' forewarning.

The truth is that this forum (and others) have a 'watch out' section, and have had for years - and in that section forewarning a seller that there name is about to appear in a negative light does not appear to be common practice at all. Here's just one example, there are many, many more...
Absolutely, some incredible double standards going on here. I'm very disappointed in a lot of the responses by people here who think this was done on a whim with no hard evidence. There are DOZENS of pieces of evidence scattered throughout this thread.

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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by Richard_H » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:45 am

The Kenner baggies with white paint are clearly and obviously fake. Ok that appears to be concrete.
They were first sold 2 years ago?

So, where is the watch out thread? Lots of popular saying (especially on FB) that these are bloody obvious. Can someone send me a link of the watch out thread as surely the buyers would have done this as I've never seen them before.

Re: podcast

Frank has been asked to come on 3 times in the past and declined. Jeff has been asked to come on here and declined. Stalemate IMO.

It's unfair to say we're biased / defending him. One of us was kept out of the interview as he is too close to Jeff. I have no idea if he'd class him as a friend. Without the podcast we'd not have heard the other side.

10 mins prep time shows that this was not prepared and shows it's raw. Whoever told Frank the contents of the podcast has got it wrong. We have not or ever defended the guy as totally innocent.

I have 3 points and all of the names listed as accusers need to address this

1. Jeff HAS been accused of making baggies in the OP. Ignored by a few. See Joes screenshot above.

IMO there is no evidence of this. If this can't be supplied then it should be retracted and an apology made. If there is proof then of course he will be the new TT.

2. Jeff has been accused of selling fake baggies with knowledge. We need to see this evidence as I haven't seen it yet. An email or any message that says Jeff those Bossk mailers are fake and this is why. Then screenshots from eBay. That'd be job done. There is no evidence of this yet.

3. Jeff has been accused of selling fake baggies without knowledge or due care. Jeff has admitted to selling baggies that turned out to be fake. Has anyone contacted Jeff for a refund for a fake confirmed by Frank (or the accusers) and been refused a refund? If so, I'd like to see it.

Jeff contacted me last night. He is not a technophobe, my mistake. He does not want an online profile which is his right. It is not an admission of guilt. He is not refusing to respond to emails or phone calls.

Swfuk cannot demand that all correspondence goes here.

So what are the next steps? Well, he's offered to take the baggies to Frank but I accept there'd be a doubt that all baggies have been sent. Frank lives in the arse end of nowhere so it's difficult to get to him. There are others who live near Jeff.
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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by Richard_H » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:49 am

edd_jedi wrote:
finestcomics wrote:Did you, or did you not post these words?

Image
I have edited that line to say they are known to be fake and sold by Jeff.
Edd, that is the bit that got me (possibly others) most uncomfortable about the whole post. The accusers, we are led to believe, supported that and we have seen no evidence. More than a mod edit is needed there.
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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by Caswellbot » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:50 am

For what's it's worth it seems to me that there is a separate issue from whether Jeff made them or not which we all know is going to be virtually impossible to prove. I will however refer to my previous point which one or two others have touched upon and can't be ignored:

"Am I right in thinking that the "hand painted" kenner baggie of which a pic was posted in this thread as well as the red stickers meccano baggies are meant to have been sold by Jeff?

If so, one thing I would seriously question is how someone who has a thousand baggies and has been collecting them for so long isn't able to spot the blatant fakes that have been posted on this thread. Especially if they have other examples they can use for comparison??

I'm not suggesting that those in question were made by Jeff personally but if he did sell them and didn't spot they were fake, he is either completely naive (which I fail to believe given his past dealings in the world of baggies ) or he knowingly turned a blind eye."

People are getting very hung up on the public outing of this and evidence around whether he physically faked them himself and ignoring this important point. If he turned a blind eye to this even or chanced his arm knowing they might have been fake then thats almost as bad as making them. The person selling the fake Ralph Lauren at the local market is as bad in my eyes as the folks making them.

To suggest that Jeff was naive to the extent that he didn't know some of these ones he sold were fake or at least highly suspect seems pretty ludicrous. Well to me at least.

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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by edd_jedi » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:52 am

Here's one watch out thread from three years ago Rich which I have already linked to twice:

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=19041

My main issue with the podcast is the fact Jeff was practically pardoned by you guys at the end. I appreciate you doing the interview, but it was not your place to do that. You had no evidence, your opinion was based on the fact he was a nice guy.

The person who stole my collection 10 years ago was a nice guy too. He was liked by many on this and other forums. When I first spoke to him on the phone he also sounded incredibly vulnerable, upset and afraid. It doesn't mean dick I'm afraid.

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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by Richard_H » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:53 am

Oops. I state the following so people understand my position.

15-20 is clearly wrong. We're looking at more than that number.

I have told Frank that he is an expert IMO. He's knowledge is not in doubt. I know Frank far better than I know Jeff
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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by Richard_H » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:55 am

We want him to come to FF so people can talk to him. People can show him baggies and look at his stock. Far better than him going into hiding.

There was no pardon.

Edit -

My opinion is not based on the fact he seems nice. I do not throw people under the bus unless I see evidence. There is evidence of him selling fake baggies but no more IMO yet. I need more before an opinion either way is formed.

Where are the other accusers? I appreciate the efforts put in by monike and Frank which clearly shows fakes traced back to Jeff. Well, actually fakes we've been told trace back to Jeff, but I'm not going to doubt it. Surely that says a lot?
Last edited by Richard_H on Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by Richard_H » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:58 am

That linked thread has hardly any posts and I can't see the pic so can't tell what it was. Not that I doubt you, I know it's the one now. it's not the evidence I'm looking for but it does show that from 3 years one concern was raised and a refund was issued. Now, did an accuser discuss these with Jeff? Did Jeff contact Frank about these? Need more on this
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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by edd_jedi » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:09 am

Jeff's eBay feedback for selling one of the red text baggies that he denied he resold:
red.png
red.png (21.34 KiB) Viewed 143 times
http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI ... 55&page=16

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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by Richard_H » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:12 am

Now this is more interesting. I don't you think realise that we don't have what you guys do. What you've given us is not strong enough after a very damning post.

I'm off to work now but will read that carefully and more of this needs to come forward.
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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by edd_jedi » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:12 am

I think it might be a good idea to start another thread with just evidence and no discussion like we did with Toni. There is a shit load of concrete evidence in this thread and sadly it is being buried.

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Re: Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Post by Richard_H » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:25 am

Great idea. If we could address the 'knowingly' I'd be very interested. We've got the 'has' bit.
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