Episode 9...your personal feelings

Discuss all Star Wars films here - the original trilogy, prequel trilogy and the new Disney films.

Will you be going to see Ep9 in the cinema?

Hell yes! I've already given Disney my wallet, bank details and first born.
15
27%
I'm interested to see what they do with the next chapter.
19
35%
I'm on the fence.
4
7%
If most fans say it's good, I could be persuaded.
4
7%
Hell no! I'm making an effigy of Rian and Kathleen that weekend.
13
24%
 
Total votes: 55

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Darth Bobby » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:57 am

I’m looking forward to it. I’ve completely separated the old stuff from the new stuff. The first three films have their own place and are very special to me. The rest of it is just a bit of fun. The new Disney stuff is hit and miss. I’m going into it with an open mind. You never know it might be FUCKING AMAZING!? sorry about the swearing.

For everyone who says they are going to boycott it... I bet you watch the trailer. It’s irristable!

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Dantooine » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:27 am

Darth Bobby wrote:I’m looking forward to it. I’ve completely separated the old stuff from the new stuff. The first three films have their own place and are very special to me. The rest of it is just a bit of fun. The new Disney stuff is hit and miss. I’m going into it with an open mind. You never know it might be FUCKING AMAZING!? sorry about the swearing.

For everyone who says they are going to boycott it... I bet you watch the trailer. It’s irristable!
I agree. With regards to the OT it has no relation (neither do the prequels for that matter - Darth Vader DID NOT BUILD C3PO!) but as much as I doubt it will be I'd love to see a great Star Wars film again. I'm pretty cynical about it but want to be proven wrong.

That leaked poster had some ok things on it, the Knights of Ren being the thing I'm most interested in.

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Darth Bobby » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:22 pm

Dantooine wrote:
Darth Bobby wrote:I’m looking forward to it. I’ve completely separated the old stuff from the new stuff. The first three films have their own place and are very special to me. The rest of it is just a bit of fun. The new Disney stuff is hit and miss. I’m going into it with an open mind. You never know it might be FUCKING AMAZING!? sorry about the swearing.

For everyone who says they are going to boycott it... I bet you watch the trailer. It’s irristable!
I agree. With regards to the OT it has no relation (neither do the prequels for that matter - Darth Vader DID NOT BUILD C3PO!) but as much as I doubt it will be I'd love to see a great Star Wars film again. I'm pretty cynical about it but want to be proven wrong.

That leaked poster had some ok things on it, the Knights of Ren being the thing I'm most interested in.
Good to hear from you Dan. I think everyone needs to chill out about Star Wars. There’s loads of stuff coming up, some of it might be really good? Hope so anyway!

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by TK-7785 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:10 pm

Dantooine wrote:
Darth Bobby wrote:I’m looking forward to it. I’ve completely separated the old stuff from the new stuff. The first three films have their own place and are very special to me. The rest of it is just a bit of fun. The new Disney stuff is hit and miss. I’m going into it with an open mind. You never know it might be FUCKING AMAZING!? sorry about the swearing.

For everyone who says they are going to boycott it... I bet you watch the trailer. It’s irristable!
I agree. With regards to the OT it has no relation (neither do the prequels for that matter - Darth Vader DID NOT BUILD C3PO!) but as much as I doubt it will be I'd love to see a great Star Wars film again. I'm pretty cynical about it but want to be proven wrong.

That leaked poster had some ok things on it, the Knights of Ren being the thing I'm most interested in.
I think you've hit on something very true there. I learned to separate my love for the OT from Star Wars in general some time ago. Any new Star Wars that appeals to me, like Rogue One, I will enjoy to the fullest. If other offerings don't do it for me, I don't take part and don't give them my money. That doesn't make me miserable bastard, it just means I don't like something simply for automatically having the Star Wars label on it. I think they used to call that discerning. :wink:

I think we can say with a great degree of certainty no one here, or any other Star Wars fan for that matter, genuinely wants to hate a Star Wars film for the love of hating. That just seems absurd. I hope The Mandalorian will be a good romp. :)
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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Cazza » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:34 am

TK-7785 wrote:
I think we can say with a great degree of certainty no one here, or any other Star Wars fan for that matter, genuinely wants to hate a Star Wars film for the love of hating. That just seems absurd. I hope The Mandalorian will be a good romp. :)
Unfortunately, don't think that's the case. Having seen the absolute bile and hatred from some quarters after TLJ, I think there's a substantial part of the fanbase who now genuinely want to hate. They didn't like the Disney takeover in the first place and the divisiveness of the film gave them the opportunity. Death threats to cast and crew, negative spamming of Rotten Tomatoes before Solo had even been released etc etc. A lot if these so called SW fans seem to live to hate at the moment. Even if 9 is a genuinely good film, there is a proportion of the fanbase who will hate it before they've even seen it, no matter what. And, yes, it absolutely is absurd.
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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Darth Bobby » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:54 am

Cazza wrote:
TK-7785 wrote:
I think we can say with a great degree of certainty no one here, or any other Star Wars fan for that matter, genuinely wants to hate a Star Wars film for the love of hating. That just seems absurd. I hope The Mandalorian will be a good romp. :)
Unfortunately, don't think that's the case. Having seen the absolute bile and hatred from some quarters after TLJ, I think there's a substantial part of the fanbase who now genuinely want to hate. They didn't like the Disney takeover in the first place and the divisiveness of the film gave them the opportunity. Death threats to cast and crew, negative spamming of Rotten Tomatoes before Solo had even been released etc etc. A lot if these so called SW fans seem to live to hate at the moment. Even if 9 is a genuinely good film, there is a proportion of the fanbase who will hate it before they've even seen it, no matter what. And, yes, it absolutely is absurd.
I think that equates to everything now. Before social media you could say “Wouldn’t it be wonderful if everyone had a voice and could express their opinions for the rest of the world to see!” Now everyone does have a platform to speak and it isn’t pretty. There’s a lot of disturbing stuff out there and some folk are just full of bile. I suppose its human nature that some people just want to bitch and moan. There’s some really nasty people out there too.

Bring on the trailer! I would say to some people, put away your preconceptions and just enjoy it for what it is.

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by weasel » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:56 am

Darth Bobby wrote: Before social media you could say “Wouldn’t it be wonderful if everyone had a voice and could express their opinions for the rest of the world to see!” Now everyone does have a platform to speak and it isn’t pretty. There’s a lot of disturbing stuff out there and some folk are just full of bile. I suppose its human nature that some people just want to bitch and moan. There’s some really nasty people out there too.
Whilst I agree about it being a wider problem, more to do with social media and the way of the world ATM, I couldn't disagree with the first sentence more. The vast majority of people are fuckng morons with opinions and ideas that are wildly inaccurate, daft or just plain wrong. To make matters worse, most have no interest in reading/researching or checking their opinions are valid/correct. 'It's my opinion and it's right.'
Quite why we are all now subject to hearing them and why ANYONE thinks that is/was a good idea is beyond me. Without bringing politics into it, look at how much BS has been spouted by BOTH sides on the Brexit issue. How many people have you seen on Facebook or Twitter spouting off some shit that you know is wrong or such a twisting of the facts as to make their point entirely void!? Again, BOTH sides are as bad as each other so don't anyone try and turn this into a Brexit thread or blame the other side in that debate for being worse than their side.

Social media has some plus points but it is overwhelmingly negative added to the current obession with people seemingly feeling they are entitled to be offended by anything that they disagree with and that somehow means something. It doesn't, but those attitudes have spilled over into SW and into people's discussions of the films and indeed collecting in general. It's sad. I long for 'a more civilised age'.
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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Snaketibe » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:59 pm

Whilst there will always be a few assholes that will hate for hate's sake (in whatever field or walk of life), from what I have seen, the VAST majority of SW fans that dislike TLJ neither participate in nor condone the actions of a tiny, vocal minority of dickheads who engage in reprehensible activities like trolling Kelly Marie Tran, or making death threats against Rian Johnson. By any reasonable standard, such actions are completely unacceptable and I, like the overwhelming majority of SW fans on both sides of the debate I'm sure, utterly condemn them.

Having made that very clear distinction therefore, I want to make it as plain as I can that I am getting pretty fucking sick and tired of being tarred with the same brush as that vanishingly small crock of cunts! I am NOT racist. I am NOT sexist. I am NOT a misogynist. I do NOT hate Disney. I do NOT wish Kathleen Kennedy or Rian Johnson dead.

What I am is a lifelong Star Wars fan who felt utterly betrayed by the artistic decisions taken in TLJ, and to a lesser extent, TFA before it. I hate TLJ with a burning, undying passion because to me it is completely at odds with every single possible aspect of the preceding canon! And I'm allowed to have that opinion, whether anyone else agrees with it or not (just as they are entitled to their different opinions), without being branded as a hate peddler, or lazily lumped in with a non-existent 'substantial part of the fanbase who genuinely want to hate'. I simply don't believe such a group of people exists; certainly not a 'substantial' one, because I see no evidence for it.

I won't be going to see Episode IX because of the horrible taste left in my mouth after that talentless vandal Rian Johnson shat in it. It has nothing to do with wanting to hate anything or anyone. I WANTED to love TLJ, but sadly I didn't. I didn't WANT to hate it, but the pile of shit I saw onscreen forced me to hate it. And using that criterion, I see no reason to hand over any more cash to watch the continuation of a story which has been so comprehensively driven over a cliff. Other people are entitled to their own opinions, and if you are planning to go to see Episode IX, I really hope you enjoy it. Truly, I do. But kindly don't damn me for not going, or try to pigeon hole me as this, that or the other, simply because I hated the last film.

Lastly, one very valid observation which has been made by many people on-line, and which I have observed myself, is that with very few exceptions, of those individuals that express an opinion one way or the other about TLJ on-line, the vast majority of people who dislike TLJ criticise the film, whereas the majority of those who like TLJ criticise those people that don't! You only have to glance at any message board, youtube video comments section or any other place where people are sounding off about TLJ to see the truth of that statement. I imagine the silent majority of people who both like and dislike the film are quite content to live and let live, as we all should, however of those people who post opinions, that's what you observe. I am a perfect example of that myself; I am very critical of the film, but I am quite happy for other people to hold different opinions regarding it and I won't criticise them for doing so, even if I don't understand what exactly they find to like in the film. It's their right to like it, just as it's mine to dislike it, and just because I do dislike it, it doesn't diminish my status as a SW fan or devalue me in any way.

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Cazza » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:29 pm

Snaketibe wrote:It's their right to like it, just as it's mine to dislike it, and just because I do dislike it, it doesn't diminish my status as a SW fan or devalue me in any way.
Totally with you there! I wasn't 'lazily lumping' you in with anyone mate! Sorry you've taken it personally :? I do however, stand by my view that there are a lot of man-baby, snowflake haters within the fanbase now, who are fueled by a hate of Disney, because they didn't get EXACTLY what they wanted from the new films, especially TLJ. One such person was banned from here recently, after CONSTANT anti-Disney trolling in pretty much every one of his posts. There are also a lot of people that hated TLJ (such as yourself), who are not toxic haters at all. I was similar with AOTC, which I disliked greatly and had every right to do so. It was a huge disappointment to me at the time, but I got over it... eventually :lol:
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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Grant_C » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:41 pm

Agree with the points of view, but I think it’s worth saying that the majority of online comments come from teenagers. They hate everything, especially their parents who bought them a red Farrari when they clearly stated they want a yellow one.

I always go into these with positive expectations. The journey has always been the most fun. Going to Celebration or other conventions. Chatting to friends and fans, speculating and getting hyped. It’s amazing fun.

Very rarely has this ever met expectation. But I can handle a disappointing film with no problem at all. It’s really not the end of the world.

With regards to Episode 8, totally get the revulsion. But I also see the other side as well. There is no way that Lucasfilm made a film that they thought would upset people. The criticism has be heard loud and clearly. They have reset their strategy going forward apparently so let’s see. Give them a chance to amends. There is some stuff I’ve heard which has definitely been film which shocked me. Holy shit, are they really going to do that! That’s mind blowing, was my reaction. So let’s see.

There is a fantastic book call the Untold story of Star Wars. To me it’s the best researched book on the making of the first 6. I suggest everyone reads it as some of the criticisms levelled against the Disney era are also true of the first six.

There is no film harder to make than a Star Wars film. Everything is made up. Story, characters, costumes, sets, worlds, philosophies, language- everything. This also is burdened with fan expectations and legacy. Most films fail. These films have to succeed to a global fan base. It’s an unbelievable and daughting project to take on. I wish them the very best.

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Clarkspie&chips » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:18 pm

My main issue with the sequels is I find the characters and the story uninteresting. It’s hard to get hyped on the next film when the characters don’t develop and the story doesn’t seem to go anywhere.

Attack of the Clones was mentioned earlier which I also think is a pile of wank but it does progress the overall story of the prequels and develop the main characters.
The last Jedi really doesn’t seem to achieve anything though as everyone is back where they started by the end and none of the characters have done anything of importance with perhaps the exception of Kylo.

To compare Star Wars with Disney’s other major franchise - the MCU, I am genuinely excited about the next Avengers film. If thy can churn out those superhero films one after another and still keep people excited, why can’t they do it with a trilogy?

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Grant_C » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:38 pm

Yeah - I’m excited about the new Avengers film.

The one thing I don’t get with Marvel is that they have pretty much told the same story 18 times and no one cares.

Evil guy (plain evil) decides to kidnap girlfriend/destroy the world. Hero has/attains superpowers and deafeats bad guy every time.

With a few exceptions- this is the formula every time.

It’s insane to me that they got away with it.

Those Russo brothers films are great though

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by TK-7785 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:43 pm

Whilst I agree on there being some very self-centred people out there who feel their opinion and feelings are more valid than anyone else's and will scream at a brick wall in disagreement (I think this is true of both sides of the argument to a degree), I really do think this is small minority. But I also agree on the fact that the the majority of those who dislike the film state their opinions on the film, not on those who hold a different opinion. It often seems to be the other way round for those who love the film. Some people seem to take one person's dislike of a film, song, football team as a personal affront. Which I think can speak more about their confidence in their own beliefs than anything else.

I can find many more videos on YouTube that critically analyse the faults of TLJ, be it plot, character, lack of continuity etc. But not nearly as many giving analysis to the contrary and defending TLJ for its technical merits. I can however find many videos claiming those who don't like TLJ are "man babies", sexist bigots etc but not actually trying to refute any valid criticism. In the interest of fairness I have watched a couple that make some valid points over TLJ from a film making perspective, as well as some videos from the dislike camp name calling those who like it. I don't anyone can realistically claim that every single element of the film is bad. It has some lovely visuals for example. But it does seem to be heavily weighted in one direction. With regards to that I always think if someone can't argue and refute a point without resorting to name calling or labelling their opponent a bigot, racist, man-baby etc (take your pick) then they haven't really got much of an argument at all.

The internet gives those who spend their days acting as town criers and self-appointed spokes persons for the fanbase the ability to massively skew one's perspective on reality. The book 'Look at me' by Peter Whittle discusses this phenomena very well; the idea that in modern society some people feel the need to let everyone else know how unique and important they are. The internet, for all its benefits, gives a disproportionate platform to these self aggrandising types. As Weasel stated this is true of politics across the western world right now. Political agendas are being forced into every aspect of culture and media these days and derailing the ability to have a frank and fair discussion, over all manner of topics, including something a honest as a film's merits without it descending into name calling. This is at least true on the internet and in the media. For all those I have discussed this in person with, both SW fans and not, whom I disagreed with, it came down to respecting one another's opinions and getting on with our lives. I'd rather move on and chat about we can all agree vintage Kenner and Palitoy is awesome over a couple of pints.

As a disclaimer none of this is directed at anyone in particular, especially those who can't stand having a difference of opinion. :lol:
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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by Snaketibe » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:04 pm

Cazza wrote:
Snaketibe wrote:It's their right to like it, just as it's mine to dislike it, and just because I do dislike it, it doesn't diminish my status as a SW fan or devalue me in any way.
Totally with you there! I wasn't 'lazily lumping' you in with anyone mate! Sorry you've taken it personally :? I do however, stand by my view that there are a lot of man-baby, snowflake haters within the fanbase now, who are fueled by a hate of Disney, because they didn't get EXACTLY what they wanted from the new films, especially TLJ. One such person was banned from here recently, after CONSTANT anti-Disney trolling in pretty much every one of his posts. There are also a lot of people that hated TLJ (such as yourself), who are not toxic haters at all. I was similar with AOTC, which I disliked greatly and had every right to do so. It was a huge disappointment to me at the time, but I got over it... eventually :lol:
Thank you, and I'm sorry if I came across as ranting at you personally, Cazza. I didn't mean to. It's more the collective weight of numbers thing with the constant criticism of people who didn't like TLJ, that I find hard to take. Everywhere I seem to turn on-line, I seem to find people branding me as something unpleasant for not liking the film, or else lumping me in with what thankfully will be a very, very small but vocal percentage of the global total of Star Wars fans, who would bring shame and embarrassment on any group to which they were a member (I remember the story a few years ago about a supposed Star Wars fan that burned down a church whilst either dressed as Darth Vader or whilst wearing a Vader T-shirt - I forget which - and who certainly didn't represent any one of us, even though the press were keen to trumpet the fact that this criminal happened to be a Star Wars fan).

I genuinely do think the type of person you are referring to thankfully also represents a very small but vocal minority of the total number of all fans. Yes they exist, but Star Wars is loved by tens of millions of people around the world, and the percentage of them that falls into your category must be tiny, otherwise we'd meet them everywhere we went, and nobody wants that ;-)

As for AOTC, what about all that terrific humour that didn't fall flat at all when C-3PO lost his head and started acting like a Clone Trooper?... Ooh my sides!... Where's my needle and thread, as I think I've just split them? :roll: ... I don't know what's worse, that or Mr Binks stepping in poo :wink:

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Re: Episode 9...your personal feelings

Post by weasel » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:15 pm

Grant_C wrote:Yeah - I’m excited about the new Avengers film.

The one thing I don’t get with Marvel is that they have pretty much told the same story 18 times and no one cares.
I rumbled the non existent plot after about the second or third film, and haven't watched many since. Occasionally if one of my mates suggests going to see a Marvel film and I'm bored/fancy some popcorn I'll go, but the films are so generic and for me, so shit, I am amazed they rake in as much money as they do. Each to their own though, people must like them.
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