ESB Palitoy MOCs - scale of rarity

Andyclarke

Sith Lord
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May 11, 2011
Messages
1,139
80s_collector said:
Andyclarke said:
Hothrebel said:
Jealousy comes to mind :D

Err Nick that doesn't make sense???

Great words Andy....surprising really how people change....last year you were begging me to supply you with vintage product, but now your comparing me with extra terrestrials...cheers..!

As Joe highlighted in a recent thread people post on here for the love of the hobby and to progress our understanding of it. If you have unearthed some rare cards there is no sense whatsoever of you not photographing them and sharing. We certainly wouldn't expect to know who ended up buying them so what difference does it make.
Whether these cards exist or not I believe you take great pleasure in winding some of our more respected collectors up.
Asking if you had any Palitoy 45a's for sale is hardly begging and have you turned any up, no. You kept me hanging though as if you might get some.
 

80s_collector

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Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
181
Lee Gregory said:
Had a good look at what you had for sale at Celebration and I presumed, maybe incorrectly, that you everything what you had for sale was on display. All I saw items that you can buy from most Vectis auctions, with a graded premium slapped on top.

I genuinely had no idea that the stall was yours, if I knew I may well have said hello and got chatting to you......I'm not the type to hide behind my laptop or phone in this case in the comfort of my home

Ok that's good lee, yes next time please come and say hi, with me been out of sw for so many years I don't know who the collectors are, I know many toy collectors as that's my business but sw has been a product I havnt sold a lot since last year, I'm getting back into it though thankfully.

Yes I admit 1% of the product on display came from Vectis and was graded, but most was from my own stash with a few gems Nick brought along.

By what collectors told me at celebration, they seemed very pleased with our stand and there was something for everyone's budget.
Plus it was great to hear that many thought my prices were reasonable for top quality product.

I met a few collectors off the forums too and they seemed a great group of guys actually, plus I got to meet many new serious collectors who
We're so pleased to see high quality items in mint condition available for sale.

So a big thank you to Everyone I met, it was a very enjoyable few days.
 

lejackal

Grand Master
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Jul 1, 2015
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6,786
80s_collector said:
Great post Nick by the way, at least you understand my business confidentiality.
But only confidential on your terms, you're happy to come on here and raise that members have dealt/tried dealing with you in the past? Confidential until the cash flow stops from the sounds of it.
 

80s_collector

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181
lejackal said:
80s_collector said:
Great post Nick by the way, at least you understand my business confidentiality.
But only confidential on your terms, you're happy to come on here and raise that members have dealt/tried dealing with you in the past? Confidential until the cash flow stops from the sounds of it.[/

The cash flow never started...end of basically.
 

lejackal

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Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
6,786
80s_collector said:
lejackal said:
80s_collector said:
Great post Nick by the way, at least you understand my business confidentiality.
But only confidential on your terms, you're happy to come on here and raise that members have dealt/tried dealing with you in the past? Confidential until the cash flow stops from the sounds of it.[/

The cash flow never started...end of basically.
Not really, you're trying to say you pride yourself on confidentiality but have proved you only care if you're actually getting paid and couldn't give a rats ass about confidentiality if a deal doesn't come to fruition
 

80s_collector

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181
Andyclarke said:
80s_collector said:
Andyclarke said:
Err Nick that doesn't make sense???

Great words Andy....surprising really how people change....last year you were begging me to supply you with vintage product, but now your comparing me with extra terrestrials...cheers..!

As Joe highlighted in a recent thread people post on here for the love of the hobby and to progress our understanding of it. If you have unearthed some rare cards there is no sense whatsoever of you not photographing them and sharing. We certainly wouldn't expect to know who ended up buying them so what difference does it make.
Whether these cards exist or not I believe you take great pleasure in winding some of our more respected collectors up.
Asking if you had any Palitoy 45a's for sale is hardly begging and have you turned any up, no. You kept me hanging though as if you might get some.

Andy, many collectors wind themselves up dreaming of a bargain.

Shame they throw their toys out of their pram when it doesn't go their way.

Nevermind, I'm
Used to it hshaha
 

mr_palitoy

Sith Lord
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
4,988
Location
London
Late to the party here.

I've always been happy to share pics of any rare cards I have as it helps build community knowledge. I know a lot of collectors like to keep there rare pieces out of the limelight though.

I have 4 of the more common 30bs for the first 12 characters.



I also have a reseal of the Ben. There is also a MOC and 2 cardbacks of chewie and there are pictures but they are not mine so don't have a picture of those handy. The MOC was seen on display at the Palitoy Archive at CE back in 2007.

The other 30bs I have confirmed on my cardback matrix come from testimony from a couple of trusted collectors who have seen them or know of them, and I have no reason to doubt their word. In almost 10 years of looking I have never seen any other 30bs come up outside of the 5 I have mentioned though, so they are pretty rare.

Hope that helps!

Cheers Jason
 

TrisCompany

Jedi Knight
Joined
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Messages
286
Location
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Thanks for sharing Jason. This is what I have so far.
 

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Cazza

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80s_collector said:
Andyclarke said:
80s_collector said:
Great words Andy....surprising really how people change....last year you were begging me to supply you with vintage product, but now your comparing me with extra terrestrials...cheers..!

As Joe highlighted in a recent thread people post on here for the love of the hobby and to progress our understanding of it. If you have unearthed some rare cards there is no sense whatsoever of you not photographing them and sharing. We certainly wouldn't expect to know who ended up buying them so what difference does it make.
Whether these cards exist or not I believe you take great pleasure in winding some of our more respected collectors up.
Asking if you had any Palitoy 45a's for sale is hardly begging and have you turned any up, no. You kept me hanging though as if you might get some.

Andy, many collectors wind themselves up dreaming of a bargain.

Shame they throw their toys out of their pram when it doesn't go their way.

Nevermind, I'm
Used to it hshaha

Ian, as said above, we are all enthusiasts, and simply want to know (with evidence) if certain items exist. It's out of a real love for the hobby, fueled by childhood memories etc etc. I can't for the life of me understand why you are dangling this in front of everyone. You'd be helping out the community (archives etc) simply by sharing a pic. Maybe you don't have the sentiment etc that others have about the hobby, but why should that stop you helping out the community? You're borderline trolling at the moment and you're going to end up damaging your rep (which seems very good from what I have seen). You're starting to sound like a certain Mr Action Force. It's quite sad really :?
 

jimmyshoes

Youngling
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
19
ScruffyLookingNH said:
Hey Jimmy, welcome to the forum! It's great to know there's a new Palitoy collector on the forum (you'll find a few of us here). You'll find this site will catapult your knowledge beyond what is readily available on the web. We have collectors here with examples of "one only known" MOCs in their collections and some of those guys have numerous different "one only known" items MOCs. There's some very knowledgeable sorts here, of which I do not class myself as one :)

Sure, there are some prohibitively expensive examples Palitoy MOCs out there just as there are of pretty much any manufacturer, including bootlegs like Uzay. However, this shouldn't put folks off as there are also stacks available for almost no money at all, including "rare" items! I recently watched a SEALED Palitoy 30 back go for £124. Nope, not kidding. There are bargains to be had whatever you collect. And anyway, you can collect common, cheap Palitoys like BBG and AT-AT Commander on 45a: both readily available for little more than £100 in great condition.

As for avoiding all 45b Palitoy cardbacks: great idea! If only more people did this I could afford many more for my collection :lol: There really is no need to avoid all 45b Palitoy. Yes it is a minefield but there are only, what, three Pali 45b cards on the list? Bossk, TFP and Chewie. 45c are worse hit. But even then, getting out to fairs, handling the MOCs and reading the numerous threads here should give you a much better chance of avoiding costly mistakes. And if in doubt walk away. There's always another one waiting.

Hey Scruffy!

Thanks for the warm welcome :)

I actually started collecting vintage SW in the early 90s but life events forced me to sell up most of my collection in the early 2000s. I have been dipping my toe back into collecting over the past few months and it's amazing how much info is out there now compared to those pre-eBay days! Definitely a testament to all those dedicated collectors who have stuck at it and done all the hard work to figure out what's out there.

Back then, I mostly bought from Jim Stevenson and others via Model and Collectors Mart. I may even have had a few off Toy Toni. I definitely had an upside down Hoth Trooper at some point but honestly can't remember what happened to it or who it came from. I just remember thinking it was weird but it was such a random thing that it never crossed my mind that someone might have faked it that way!

OK, so maybe I was a bit harsh on 45b's - I think I must be a bit of a logo-snob :)

Glad to be here and back in the collecting world. I just wonder how much stuff is still out there in the wild that hasn't already been through the hands of dealers/collectors. And like the natural world, how many card/figure combos have gone extinct without anyone ever realising they existed. Ebay and more recently, Vectis have made the rarest pieces much more accessible but I like to think that there are still discoveries out there to be made.

Cheers,

JS
 

jimmyshoes

Youngling
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
19
lejackal said:
jimmyshoes said:
Hey! I've been studying Palitoy ESB for a while and can thoroughly recommend Mr Palitoys cardback guide for a great matrix of what figure/cardback combinations known to exist as well as a great visual guide to the various sub-variation.

I agree with everything that's been said so far. I think there are two key things to bear in mind when starting out collecting Palitoy ESB.

1) Some figures are prohibitively expensive unless you are very rich. A 30b Fett recently sold on Vectis for around £18k.
2) Toy Toni. There are many 45b figures that were allegedly sealed up from old factory leftovers by him. Again Mr Palitoy has a comprehensive list of what should be considered suspect.

If you go into it accepting that there are some cards you'll likely never own due to cost/rarity and avoid the 45b cards, you should be fine. Personally I love the 30 backs as they were the ones I remember on the shelves when I first became aware of Star Wars as a kid.

Cheers

JS
Best opening post ever???

Thanks lejackal

I'm new to the forum (at least in terms of posting) but I'm not so new to vintage collecting. Amazing how the landscape has changed since the days when everything was done via collector's fairs, magazines and mail order. Kudos to all those who have done the work to figure out what's out there and what's really rare. If you'd told me in 1992 that a tri-logo Madine was probably the rarest tri-logo and would be worth thousands, or indeed that tri-logo collecting would become a "thing", I'd have laughed in your face :)

Then again I never did make the best collecting decisions having once done a straight swap, Palitoy 12 back large head Han for small head, thinking that the small head must have been rarer....

You're always learning in this game!

JS
 

TrisCompany

Jedi Knight
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
286
Location
London
Thanks Jedisearcher, it's a great card but has a slit to the top of the bubble. Still a favourite item though.
 

palitoyjunky

Sith Lord
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
2,965
TrisCompany said:
Thanks for sharing Jason. This is what I have so far.

Ah v nice! I could b wrong but the discolouration of Bens legs and the fact it has a top sliced bubble ring a bell :!: That does look like the Ben I passed on that I mentioned. V nice mate 8)

And a word of warning to u Ian, u may want to take heed of what has been said regarding ur rep going down the toilet in our SW community :!: As said a certain individual from Manchester certainly became Public Enemy No 1 when he was active amongst us purely because of his childish egoistical attitude and over inflated opinion of himself :!:

Don't do it pal :!:

Btw nice one Jason on digging up the 2007 Cel pics, rem it well and took some pics myself of those pieces in the Palitoy Archive Room 8)
 

Andyclarke

Sith Lord
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
1,139
Thanks all for posting pics of the 30 back cards, great to see them. With so few out there I wonder if they were a limited print run to supplement the 12 backs which were already out there to go with the 30Bs. There certainly seems less of these than the normal 30B's and 41 backs must have come out within a matter of months.
 

ScruffyLookingNH

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2,983
Cazza said:
80s_collector said:
Andyclarke said:
As Joe highlighted in a recent thread people post on here for the love of the hobby and to progress our understanding of it. If you have unearthed some rare cards there is no sense whatsoever of you not photographing them and sharing. We certainly wouldn't expect to know who ended up buying them so what difference does it make.
Whether these cards exist or not I believe you take great pleasure in winding some of our more respected collectors up.
Asking if you had any Palitoy 45a's for sale is hardly begging and have you turned any up, no. You kept me hanging though as if you might get some.

Andy, many collectors wind themselves up dreaming of a bargain.

Shame they throw their toys out of their pram when it doesn't go their way.

Nevermind, I'm
Used to it hshaha

Ian, as said above, we are all enthusiasts, and simply want to know (with evidence) if certain items exist. It's out of a real love for the hobby, fueled by childhood memories etc etc. I can't for the life of me understand why you are dangling this in front of everyone. You'd be helping out the community (archives etc) simply by sharing a pic. Maybe you don't have the sentiment etc that others have about the hobby, but why should that stop you helping out the community? You're borderline trolling at the moment and you're going to end up damaging your rep (which seems very good from what I have seen). You're starting to sound like a certain Mr Action Force. It's quite sad really :?

Absolutely spot on. I had a far less considered, intelligent and reasonable response ready to type out but this will do nicely so I'll say no more.
 

TrisCompany

Jedi Knight
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
286
Location
London
Thanks Palitoyjunky, it was an ebay buy about a year or so ago. Really delighted to have it in my collection.
 

80s_collector

Padawan
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
181
palitoyjunky said:
TrisCompany said:
Thanks for sharing Jason. This is what I have so far.

Ah v nice! I could b wrong but the discolouration of Bens legs and the fact it has a top sliced bubble ring a bell :!: That does look like the Ben I passed on that I mentioned. V nice mate 8)

And a word of warning to u Ian, u may want to take heed of what has been said regarding ur rep going down the toilet in our SW community :!: As said a certain individual from Manchester certainly became Public Enemy No 1 when he was active amongst us purely because of his childish egoistical attitude and over inflated opinion of himself :!:

Don't do it pal :!:

Btw nice one Jason on digging up the 2007 Cel pics, rem it well and took some pics myself of those pieces in the Palitoy Archive Room 8)

Firstly, my rep in the SW community and in all aspects of my business is good enough, whatever I do, I will never have a 100% rep, no business does to be fair. Also I dont have an over inflated opinion of myself....Im a very humble down to earth guy to be honest and many who know me, will back me up on this......but at the same time, I do business on my terms, I sell good clean items, no U grading, no fakes, No Repro items and I try my hardest to sell items at a fair price for myself and also my customers.....I must be fair as Ive been selling toys for a very long time now.

I do find on here though that if someone, like myself gives a straight honest opinion, and is really straight to the point that a few individuals are quick to jump and criticise my views, but at the same time they expect me to bow down and agree to their own views.
It seems like if someone enjoys reading on this forum and posting comments that arent exactly what some collectors want to hear, its like a big NO,NO,NO....your wrong.

After speaking to a few collectors, I do seem to grasp the point some of you are making about understanding and finding out about the history of SW and what manufacturers did, when items were made and comparing card backs, figure variations and so on, but sorry, that isnt my cup of tea......I was a SW collector many years ago, but Im not now, when I collected, people weren't so deep into it, a card was a card and a figure was a figure really, there were no grading in my days and a figure on a card didnt matter if it had a crease on it......it wasn't as relevant back then, but I do understand why it is now as the prices nowadays are a lot higher than years ago.

As for the comments about trolling and winding collectors up, keeping them hanging etc......well its not like that at all, Im a very busy guy and as mentioned previously a lot of my items are abroard in two different countries, so its not easy to access items in a flash, Plus I havn't managed to make a list of what I have as my main business is a very busy one and when I do get the chance to go abroard, Im so busy looking through my items to fill customers wants, (and yes the biggest spenders get priority) as that is business and thats what pays my bills.

Finally now, a few of you might just see my side of things, but if you dont, well thats life, I can't please everyone. I've said my piece and looking back at Celebration, other events and as well as other colleagues selling my products elsewhere, Im sure it will continue, hopefully, sales will keep happening, plus it was great to meet a few of you at Celebration and many thanks for your custom, as well as your praise of our stand and our service and for all the others I havn't met yet, good hunting and who knows you maybe are a customer of mine through a different channel already, or you might be in the future, who knows, but overall Star Wars collecting is massive all over the world and thankfully there are websites, events and loads of loads of info and items for sale everywhere......long may it continue.

So to a few of you who normally jump down my throat when I post......try to see my side also, Im a long term dealer, Im not a collector, so please dont look in or out of the box........just get rid of the box and see another side to this industry... :D
 

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