The Acolyte is Dead

It's a shame- it had a load of potential and some great elements. A missed opportunity and ultimately didn't meet expectations, both in quality (predominantly script/runtimes), reception and viewing figures. Coupled with the huge outlay, not great, whichever way you look at it. Onwards and upwards!
 
I wonder if it gets Willowed.

I wonder if the brass keeps their jobs again?
I came across this chart - very clearly shows just how bad the acolyte was. I doubt it will go the way of the Willow just yet because that would really be admitting how bad it was, and for KK that could well be career ending after the string of bad results she's overseen. but yes after Willow, Dial of Destiny (which I really enjoyed so I'm glad they made it) the poor SW movies (in general) I think any other studio head would have gone by now - does make you wonder doesn't it....

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I came across this chart - very clearly shows just how bad the acolyte was. I doubt it will go the way of the Willow just yet because that would really be admitting how bad it was, and for KK that could well be career ending after the string of bad results she's overseen. but yes after Willow, Dial of Destiny (which I really enjoyed so I'm glad they made it) the poor SW movies (in general) I think any other studio head would have gone by now - does make you wonder doesn't it....

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Andor being lower than She Hulk is criminal
 
Indeed- can't believe She Hulk isn't bottom of the pile. Reckon Andor Season 2 should have quite an uptick in viewers.
I agree Andor 2 I think will do well, people have had a lot of time to find it and realise just how good it is, especially next to more recent stuff, and while Goonies in Space could well be fun, I susspect it will pass adults by, meaning the big SW this year comes from Andor... If that is the case, kinda sad there can't be a S3 given it is meant to end where the film kicks off... But maybe thats a good thing
 
I wonder if it gets Willowed.

I wonder if the brass keeps their jobs again?
Kennedy could set fire to Bob Iger's trousers whilst he was still wearing them, and still not be fired. She's cost Disney billions in failed and underperforming projects of all kinds (Galaxy's Edge, the Galactic Starcruiser Hotel, Willow, Indy 5, Solo, TROS, virtually every D+ Star Wars show [each costing ~$200+ million; just wait for the actual Acolyte costs to be revealed, as I guarantee they will be a damn sight more that the $180 Disney is admitting], the complete and utter death of Star Wars merchandise sales, etc., etc.), literally billions.

She is without a shadow of doubt THE worst Hollywood studio head in history (which just goes to show how much her Producing credits are actually worth; funny how working for Steven Spielberg, Robert Zemeckis and George Lucas makes you look good at your job, isn't it?). I think it's crystal clear that a) she's an utter failure and walking non-Midas touch dumpster fire in human form, but that also b) nothing that she does, no matter how gargantuan the failure or how titanic the loss to Disney, absolutely NOTHING she does will ever get her fired. And consequently, for as long as she is in charge of Star Wars, the IP is as dead as her talent or The Acolyte's future.
 
I'd love to post this in the Acolyte thread but for whatever reason I can't - only new posts for now, but to no one's surprise the show has been consigned to a trash can far far away: https://deadline.com/2024/08/the-acolyte-canceled-no-season-2-star-wars-disney-plus-1236044233/
Great news that they will not do a season 2 and destroy even more of the star wars universe. But they damage star wars with a uncomplete series. I must admit that is something I have feared would happen when disney began to make star wars series. Series that would not be completed because it is all about money. If they made less series and movies then maybe they would do a much better job, but they can't get enough money, as I said it is all about money and money can destroy as much as money can create.
 
She won't get fired, because despite some failures, Lucasfilm has returned a x2.9 profit on it's investment, including production costs. Marvel is at x3.3 (way more films). They can't compare to Frozen and Toy Story profits, but we're still talking billions.

For the record, Galaxy's Edge is phenomenal and was rammed the two days we were there. The average spend of visitors to Hollywood Studios has increased significantly since it was built. The hotel looked amazing, but was completely floored and an absolute disaster.
 
She won't get fired, because despite some failures, Lucasfilm has returned a x2.9 profit on it's investment, including production costs. Marvel is at x3.3 (way more films). They can't compare to Frozen and Toy Story profits, but we're still talking billions.

For the record, Galaxy's Edge is phenomenal and was rammed the two days we were there. The average spend of visitors to Hollywood Studios has increased significantly since it was built. The hotel looked amazing, but was completely floored and an absolute disaster.
Wasn't that x2.9 profit exposed as the usual Disney smoke and mirrors?
As of April this year, Forbes reported that, regarding Lucasfilm, Disney were still in the red.
Could be wrong, but wasn't the ROI based on the box office revenue (including projected revenue) of the movies, merchandise etc. rather than profit?
The production costs, theatre cut and 4 billion initial outlay for Lucasfilm etc. were not included.

As for KK, I think she may drag it out until the Mando & Grogu movie is released, in the hope that will give her the much needed 'win' before retirement. Although, I'm not certain the M&G movie will be such a sure-fire hit. Grogu's popularity has peaked and the terrible Mando S3 did nothing but harm. We shall see.

Andor S2 can't come fast enough.
 
She won't get fired, because despite some failures, Lucasfilm has returned a x2.9 profit on it's investment, including production costs. Marvel is at x3.3 (way more films). They can't compare to Frozen and Toy Story profits, but we're still talking billions.

For the record, Galaxy's Edge is phenomenal and was rammed the two days we were there. The average spend of visitors to Hollywood Studios has increased significantly since it was built. The hotel looked amazing, but was completely floored and an absolute disaster.
Sorry Andy, but @Twin30mm is quite correct. Disney are simply liars. They based that bullsh*t claim of 2.9 x profit for Star Wars by EXCLUDING pretty much all outlay and costs, including the not inconsequential matter of the initial $4 billion purchase price! (LOL). And then they seriously rigged and massaged the alleged revenue taken in, and included projected sums from projects they haven't even made yet, in order to magic up a claim of profitability that simply wasn't true. This was done incidentally in order to scupper Nelson Peltz's proxy battle to win Disney Board seats, by making the company look more successful / profitable to gullible, ill-informed share-holders (many of whom I doubt will be fooled again next year when Peltz doubtless tries again; he may have sold his stake in Disney since the proxy battle, but that was when the share price was relatively high and garnered him over a billion dollars in profit for his trouble, and just like he's done before, you can expect to see him buy it all back again, and then some, once he feels the price has nose-dived far enough). Lucasfilm has not just lost Disney money, it's lost them billions overall to date, and the person responsible for that is Kennedy. Blame Iger for everything else, but at Lucasfilm, the buck stops with her.

Please don't believe Disney's hype. They are not to be trusted at any stage these days. As just one example, please marks my words, as already stated above, about the final cost of The Acolyte. Disney claims it's $180 million, but that simply won't be accurate, and is actually likely to be an eye-watering underestimate. A truer figure will come out eventually since it was made in the UK and our film tax credit laws demand that the production budgets be published (although these are only done annually, I believe, so it may take a while yet). Any SFX work done outside of the UK and any marketing spend won't be included (and don't expect Disney to give up that information freely either!), but the published spend is almost certain to rocket passed the alleged $180 million.

And that's on the least watched and least popular Disney Star Wars live action project ever; in other words that's an almost pure financial loss for Disney. The Acolyte did not attract new Disney Plus subscribers and therefore it generated Disney no new income in that regard (and before anyone asks, if sub numbers had gone up due to The Acolyte, you can bet your life Disney would still be crowing about it now, but instead it's crickets). Star Wars merchandise sales are in the toilet these days anyway (just ask poor Hasbro!), and the new product from 'The Acolyte' won't have improved that situation or saved Disney's financial skin on the project either.
 
Sorry Andy, but @Twin30mm is quite correct. Disney are simply liars. They based that bullsh*t claim of 2.9 x profit for Star Wars by EXCLUDING pretty much all outlay and costs, including the not inconsequential matter of the initial $4 billion purchase price! (LOL). And then they seriously rigged and massaged the alleged revenue taken in, and included projected sums from projects they haven't even made yet, in order to magic up a claim of profitability that simply wasn't true. This was done incidentally in order to scupper Nelson Peltz's proxy battle to win Disney Board seats, by making the company look more successful / profitable to gullible, ill-informed share-holders (many of whom I doubt will be fooled again next year when Peltz doubtless tries again; he may have sold his stake in Disney since the proxy battle, but that was when the share price was relatively high and garnered him over a billion dollars in profit for his trouble, and just like he's done before, you can expect to see him buy it all back again, and then some, once he feels the price has nose-dived far enough). Lucasfilm has not just lost Disney money, it's lost them billions overall to date, and the person responsible for that is Kennedy. Blame Iger for everything else, but at Lucasfilm, the buck stops with her.

Please don't believe Disney's hype. They are not to be trusted at any stage these days. As just one example, please marks my words, as already stated above, about the final cost of The Acolyte. Disney claims it's $180 million, but that simply won't be accurate, and is actually likely to be an eye-watering underestimate. A truer figure will come out eventually since it was made in the UK and our film tax credit laws demand that the production budgets be published (although these are only done annually, I believe, so it may take a while yet). Any SFX work done outside of the UK and any marketing spend won't be included (and don't expect Disney to give up that information freely either!), but the published spend is almost certain to rocket passed the alleged $180 million.

And that's on the least watched and least popular Disney Star Wars live action project ever; in other words that's an almost pure financial loss for Disney. The Acolyte did not attract new Disney Plus subscribers and therefore it generated Disney no new income in that regard (and before anyone asks, if sub numbers had gone up due to The Acolyte, you can bet your life Disney would still be crowing about it now, but instead it's crickets). Star Wars merchandise sales are in the toilet these days anyway (just ask poor Hasbro!), and the new product from 'The Acolyte' won't have improved that situation or saved Disney's financial skin on the project either.

The question of profitability around Star Wars is very complex and this article does a good job of showing that: https://screenrant.com/how-profitable-is-star-wars-for-disney/

Bottom line is, just films and D+ shows on their own haven't done the job, but add in the licences to Hasbro and Lego, Funko and others, the Marvel Comics and the many, many books and assorted merch - then SW is likely profitable (even if toys sales are down for Hasbro, they are up by a lot for Lego for example - in fact Hasbro is really it's own problem when it comes to SW more than Disney are - but thats another story).

But I do agree with what the ScreenRant chap rights D+ has tanked so getting back to tentpole movies is a must now - but as much as I am looking forward to the Mando film, I'm not sure it's a tentpole film, I am willing to be it will present as an enjoyable extended TV episode...
 
The question of profitability around Star Wars is very complex and this article does a good job of showing that: https://screenrant.com/how-profitable-is-star-wars-for-disney/

Bottom line is, just films and D+ shows on their own haven't done the job, but add in the licences to Hasbro and Lego, Funko and others, the Marvel Comics and the many, many books and assorted merch - then SW is likely profitable (even if toys sales are down for Hasbro, they are up by a lot for Lego for example - in fact Hasbro is really it's own problem when it comes to SW more than Disney are - but thats another story).

But I do agree with what the ScreenRant chap rights D+ has tanked so getting back to tentpole movies is a must now - but as much as I am looking forward to the Mando film, I'm not sure it's a tentpole film, I am willing to be it will present as an enjoyable extended TV episode...
I'm sorry, but the Screenrant article is it best woefully ignorant, and at worse deliberately deceptive. They claim the best way to calculate the movie profits is to take the global box office for each film and deduct its official production cost! That's laughable! For starters Disney only gets back at best 50% of the box office take on average globally (the theatres don't show them for free you know), and for seconds, as indicated above, and as even stated later in the article for Solo under their calculated figures, the official production costs are often grotesque underestimates, not least because they don't include marketing! That usually runs to at least $100 million if not $200 million per film when talking about an alleged blockbuster like a Star Wars film. Factor those trivial matters in, and the movie profits don't look quite so rosie do they? And if Screenrant is wrong to that extent about the films profits (and they certainly are), how can we trust anything else they say?! They don't mention it in the article, but famously the High Republic has been a miserable failure with books sitting unsold on shelves everywhere! Comic sales in almost every genre except manga are in the toilet too, so there's not gonna be a lot of profit coming to Lucasfilm from that direction, and whilst merchandising in general should be a cash cow, with the exception of Lego, I grant you, there are multiple reports of merchandising partners grumbling like crazy at Disney / Lucasfilm due to piss poor sales on account of their piss poor output.
 
I'm sorry, but the Screenrant article is it best woefully ignorant, and at worse deliberately deceptive.
Yeah, ScreenRant. That last bastion of unbiased journalism. I think not.

Now being reported that all Acolyte merch has been removed from the Disney Store.
Shows how much faith they had in it.
Won't be surprised if the series gets Willowed now.

How did we get here? What a mess.
 
Yeah, ScreenRant. That last bastion of unbiased journalism. I think not.

This one might be more to your liking, certainly tries to hammer the numbers by adding in all the costs that Disney don't talk about: https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/...-any-actual-profit-with-star-wars-since-2012/

Either way it is a mess and it has been very badly handled. But Inside Out 2 aside (and now Deadpool) most of Disney's output these last few years has been met with the same levels of success v's the same silly costs - the problem seems bigger than just SW....
 
This one might be more to your liking, certainly tries to hammer the numbers by adding in all the costs that Disney don't talk about: https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/...-any-actual-profit-with-star-wars-since-2012/

Either way it is a mess and it has been very badly handled. But Inside Out 2 aside (and now Deadpool) most of Disney's output these last few years has been met with the same levels of success v's the same silly costs - the problem seems bigger than just SW....
Thank you for this article (and the previous one). Yes, it's a much more realistic estimate, although as it clearly states, it tries to repeatedly err on the side of Disney, giving them the benefit of the doubt throughout the calculations, and hence almost certainly paints a more rosy picture for Disney / Lucasfilm than is really the case. Even so, the inescapable conclusion is that Disney has still not yet turned a profit with Lucasfilm, i.e. factoring in all profits and losses, they are still in the red from their initial purchase! And that with what was the greatest entertainment IP in the world, a supposed guaranteed cash cow, which thanks to KK's astonishing mismanagement, has lost or failed to make billions in multiple areas where George seemed to have no difficulties.
 
Thank you for this article (and the previous one). Yes, it's a much more realistic estimate, although as it clearly states, it tries to repeatedly err on the side of Disney, giving them the benefit of the doubt throughout the calculations, and hence almost certainly paints a more rosy picture for Disney / Lucasfilm than is really the case. Even so, the inescapable conclusion is that Disney has still not yet turned a profit with Lucasfilm, i.e. factoring in all profits and losses, they are still in the red from their initial purchase! And that with what was the greatest entertainment IP in the world, a supposed guaranteed cash cow, which thanks to KK's astonishing mismanagement, has lost or failed to make billions in multiple areas where George seemed to have no difficulties.
By this point it is fairly clear that since the acquisition things have been on the skids and at the end of the day that has to be owned by the head of the studio.

Not everything made is bad, Mando 1 & 2 where good, large chunks of the animation stuff have been enjoyable, Andor was amazing - but by and large those were all shows where KK and the money mad marketeers at Disney weren't that interested because they were busy working out how to kill a movie franchise. Once they finished with their efforts on the big screen they turned to D+ Mando 3 wasn't meant to have Grugu in it (apparently) hence it was a mess as the creatives were somewhat sold out. Book of Boba should never have been made. and finally the Acolyte is a total disaster. I kinda like Obi-Wan, but the story is silly, it was just nice to see him back on screen, Willow was one of the worst shows i've watched in years... I will defend Indie 5, I loved it, but a massive box office turd.

Story-Worlds need to be creative built and led - as soon as you try the paint by numbers approach things fail - Bring in the right creatives, drop the political BS and tell great stories - not hard - A strong Studio Head would know that - and if folks want to know why it worked for George, it was always story first and then find the tech innovation to tell it, thats why he waited 20 years to make the prequels, in part thats why he made the Young Indiana Jones TV show, to test and learn the tech.
 
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This one might be more to your liking, certainly tries to hammer the numbers by adding in all the costs that Disney don't talk about: https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/...-any-actual-profit-with-star-wars-since-2012/
What a great article. Thanks.

Those production budgets are simply staggering. No wonder Disney pulled the plug on theatrical releases.
The out of control budgets hamstrung the productions from the get-go.
Makes me angry these beloved franchises have been mis-managed on an industrial scale. The fact that Iger and Kennedy haven't been fired for gross incompetence is beyond belief.

In contrast, The Creator and Godzilla Minus One have shown that fantastic, effects-heavy films can be created for less than $100 million.
 
What a great article. Thanks.

Those production budgets are simply staggering. No wonder Disney pulled the plug on theatrical releases.
The out of control budgets hamstrung the productions from the get-go.
Makes me angry these beloved franchises have been mis-managed on an industrial scale. The fact that Iger and Kennedy haven't been fired for gross incompetence is beyond belief.

In contrast, The Creator and Godzilla Minus One have shown that fantastic, effects-heavy films can be created for less than $100 million.

I'm not sure it accounts for all the costs - but I am willing to bet that all the folks that come on to work on SW and Marvel and the like jack their prices up - they assume that they have bottomless budgets so add in the 'mega IP tax' on that. whereas the same people might come in at a lower cost for their services on stuff being run by folks with less to spend. Having worked for a mega company in this space for many years (not now...) I can say with 100% confidence that is a thing, smaller companies see you as nothing more than a cash machine - that said mega companies also look to try and squeeze the smaller folks - basically it is not great space... Anyway my rambling point is I am sure a certain amount of the inflated budget is from folks milking the cow so to speak - but by no means does that explain why $300m is needed to make a film or $180m for a TV show and we are left with things of the quality we have been forced to watch - although again back in the day the last few episodes of Game Of Thrones were close to $10m per episode, and the LoTR's TV show is a $1b studio deal for five seasons, so maybe it is less about the cost, which is staggeringly high, and all about the people again...
 

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