The damage lighter fluid does on vintage MOC's and packaging

[Joe]

This is causing flashbacks

Farrahanothermaster by kenner1977, on Flickr

Karen you look gorgeous, have you had a haircut?

 

[tiefighterboy]

You will be Ok Joe...just remember to keep all that vintage dirty, no need in cleaning it...automatically becomes a repro after that.


Good nite.

 

[tiefighterboy]

[youtube]G7RgN9ijwE4[/youtube]

 

[SOJ]

This thread assended to into comedy gold. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[tiefighterboy]

This thread assended to into comedy gold. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually after all the FB group drama and other crap going on....this has been fun

 

[finestcomics]

Nah, watching Todd getting his panties in a bunch over D Martin promoting Orme's site blows the doors off anything that went on here.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Nah, watching Todd getting his panties in a bunch over D Martin promoting Orme's site blows the doors off anything that went on here.

Nice way for you to segway into what you really came on here for, as you mentioned it in an earlier comment. You feel Myself and others were harsh on Mr.martin because he obviously supports orme. Yes I know cleaning figures and removing price tags is so much worse, You will win no friends here. ****ing tool.

 

[tiefighterboy]

and with that...feel free to survey our other members as to their feeling on Repro Boxes....or better yet..search the forum

 

[finestcomics]

No, my purpose was to take a stand on something. You ridiculed it. The rest is just me explaining what a circle-jerk it is to take a stand on the "harm" u-grading and repros to do the hobby, and turn a blind-eye to an attempt I'm making to warn people of the damage this **** does. Cause and effect. You telling me I'm wasting my time, is bound to boomerang into a reaction from me which is telling you to your face you're ****ing wasting your time thinking your going to stop repros or u-grading. That ship sailed a long, long time ago.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Waste of time to try to stop "U' grading????????? I give up. This is going to turn into a long thread now. Good luck.

 

[itfciain]

Not sure this is going anywhere good

I get both sides - certainly I have come across MOCs were thee is a dull patch where the sticker has been removed - and although I see no issue giving them a wipe down with a baby wipe, I think heavy use of solvents has to do something to the integrity of the cardboard

In addition I completely get the point about AFA offering things as a service - seeing that Power Droid after their attempted 'clean up' proves that they are a law unto themselves - but we know that anyway, they don't care about the hobby, only the various ways in which they can extract money from it

 

[finestcomics]

Well it doesn't sound like you care guys are turning MOC's into combustible paper, or using lighter fluid to remove colour touch. Why would it matter to you then if someone is u-grading if you can't see chemicals on MOC's as being destructive? It's as pointless as trying to tell a hunter that hunts with a knife and skins wild game for breakfast to show some etiquette at the dinner table when he's chewing his steak with his mouth wide open.

 

[finestcomics]

I appreciate your response Iain, but with all due respect, I don't need to hear a joker like Todd going on about how pointless it is to raise awareness around vandals destroying MOC's and packaging to eke out higher grades, or to fool AFA/UKG to pass through otherwise rejected cards. It's deceptive and destructive. I'm just seeing the true colours, and at the core, it's hypocritical.

If people like him are so against repros and u-grading because it's destructive to the hobby, then they need to be consistent about other things that are going on with "reconditioning" and "tweaking" vintage which are equally destructive and deceptive.

 

[itfciain]

I think Todd's point (originally) was how far do you need to go with disclosure ? Baby wipe? furniture polish? Glue Gone ? Lighter Fluid? etc

And Joe (O) make a good point that a lot of this is down to education - I think your original post was correct - and if AFA are using harsh chemicals to spruce up the cards before locking them away then you do have to wonder what those chemicals - in a confined space - will do to the cards

 

[finestcomics]

I think Todd's point (originally) was how far do you need to go with disclosure ? Baby wipe? furniture polish? Glue Gone ? Lighter Fluid? etc

And Joe (O) make a good point that a lot of this is down to education - I think your original post was correct - and if AFA are using harsh chemicals to spruce up the cards before locking them away then you do have to wonder what those chemicals - in a confined space - will do to the cards

I appreciate you raising this point Iain.

In my opinion, any dry cleaning (kleenex/tissue/dry wipe) to dust off, or compressed air does not require disclosure.

Using a damp cloth on paper should be avoided for reasons I won't get into, though soap and water are the best way to clean loose figures.

When we get into Naphtha/lighter fluid/Goo Gone, or any petrol-based solvent, whether it's to remove a price sticker, residue from a sticker, or colour touch/ink touch ups, it needs to be disclosed.

Similarly, and a rule of thumb, if you have doubts about whether a wipe intended to remove nail polish or wipe a baby's bum, if you can't pronounce one or more of the chemical ingredients on the list, it's probably safe to say you should disclose them too.

There is the altered composition of the paper, trapping foreign VOC's during storage, to say nothing of the deceptive aspect of people "recommending" using lighter fluid to remove ink touch-ups as a remedy to get MOC's to pass through AFA.

 

[jambobbyb]

Does anyone have a link to the afa cleaned power droid?
Edit found it, **** me another classic move from afa!

 

[Michael Sith]

This forum is a great place for opinions and question and answer sessions in regard to a wide range of topics within the hobby.

One of the differentials of this forum, for me, is the relaxed and genuine way these topics are discussed. It begins to wrankle when a poster begins a thread in an accusatory manner, bombastic in tone.

Are the only SW Vintage collectibles worthy of collecting, those that are pristine untouched by human hand, off the shelf? No not to me.

I collect on a very meagre budget, and split bubbles, genuine reseals, damaged boxes etc, are the way to go, whatever I do to these pieces, is for my own benefit, to get them to a stage where they are displayed and I'm happy with them, I do not intrinsically change them, or "tweak" them to flip for gain, I keep them, I'm a collector!

There is a great deal of nefarious activity in the hobby, by people who are not true collectors, simply money hounds. BUT YOU WILL NOT FIND THEM HERE, on this forum.

 

[SublevelStudios]

Well said Michael.

Items in this hobby have changed hands many, many times, it would be impossible to disclose the 'full' history of a piece. That would be down to the purchaser and their knowledge of certain practices as to whether an item had been tampered with in a detrimental way and if it was worth purchasing.

I'm a collector, and I buy and sell to obtain pieces I want to add to my collection, it's the only way I can do it given budget. I really wouldn't bother telling someone if I'd used a little furniture polish to bring back a bit of shine to a dusty box. And I think if this became the new requisite for selling in the hobby - I'd quit.

 

[finestcomics]

Posting on a platform of awareness in a forum does not mean I am targeting any particular group, community member or individual. There are a number of people who have posted here who I recognize from RS, TIG, and Facebook groups. It's a glimpse into the degree of fragmentation happening in vintage collecting which does require an awareness pitch like mine to ask for assistance from group members to help spread the word. I'm not sure where you are basing the accusatory or bombastic tone, but that was directed particularly toward one individual who was both ridiculing, and behaving nonchalantly to my concerns - in a manner reminiscent of the droves of hard heads on Facebook who simply will not and cannot be convinced repros are bad for the hobby.

My handling of that particular viewpoint is on me, and I don't care to debate if my style or approach isn't to your taste or liking. Moreover, I've always been about keeping the hobby honest, and I refuse to stand-by and see anyone promoting damaging and deceptive practices. If, after everything that's been said, you still feel none of the concerns I've raised apply to your way of collecting, or that there is no harm or foul, then know that it still comes to proactive disclosure trumping anyone's selfish reasons for hiding the truth about what they've done to the toys they own and/or are planning to sell.

 

[finestcomics]

Well said Michael.

Items in this hobby have changed hands many, many times, it would be impossible to disclose the 'full' history of a piece. That would be down to the purchaser and their knowledge of certain practices as to whether an item had been tampered with in a detrimental way and if it was worth purchasing.

I'm a collector, and I buy and sell to obtain pieces I want to add to my collection, it's the only way I can do it given budget. I really wouldn't bother telling someone if I'd used a little furniture polish to bring back a bit of shine to a dusty box. And I think if this became the new requisite for selling in the hobby - I'd quit.

That's not what's being talked about here. We are talking about people here doing this stuff, and selling it without disclosure. There is no mystery when the person doing it is the same person selling it. There is also no shred of doubt when it's a piece that's limelighted with a sticker, and then you notice it for sale shortly after without a price sticker. As in the case of the Power Droid, there are situations where the before photo is much better than the after.

Conversely, there is no excuse when the company grading the piece is performing the "tweak" - that should be a simple self auditing practice for anyone entrusted with the fiduciary responsibility of acting as an impartial grader. They're business was about grading. Why they started offering a Molly Maid service comes back to money. There's no reason for them not to note what they used, and what was done, except of course if they wanted to hide it, didn't want to confuse consumers, and/or were concerned that level of disclosure/transparency would expose them to scrutiny and less demand for their cleaning service. My money is on them preferring to do this quietly, and unfortunately it's trickled into a situation where people see AFA doing it, and they follow their lead.