Premier League 23/24 Thread

[theforceuk]

It's not easier to fire him and move on, it will cost £10 million and the new coach won't want a clear out or won't be able to have a clear out because of the Euroes. Most players will not be back training until late July. Say you sack ETH today, a new coach would probably start beginning of June at the earliest, so he wouldn't see most the players until the end of July. Keep ETH, sell the players he can and doesn't want and give him an environment where he has a fighting chance. We don't even have a sporting director at the moment so who's sacking the manager, Radcliffe? He hasn't got a clue.

As for who is there, the answer is there isn't anyone. Unless you give them a clean slate of players which they won't, say you get a top top coach in and he's still got a miss mash of OGS Jose and ETH players, what's he gonna do, get predominately counter attacking lazy players to suddenly play rock and role football. Never going to happen, it's not the coach, it's player power from players that have been at the club way to long and have got yet another coach sacked.

Utds best players this year have all been academy players that listen and do what ETH says. Even the under 18s have won the league playing the way he wants to play. It's so boring, supporting a club that is run by the players and media, which has never liked ETH and has had the knives sharpened and ready from day one. Media driven agenda against him is an absolute joke, where's the pile on for Potch? They've spent £1 billion and can't score.

I see Ralph Ranick could get the Bayern Munich job, I hope he does and proves how right he was about Man Utd. Was a joke how he was treated.

 

[weasel]

I kind of agree and kind of don't on ETH.

Anyone who takes over Utd must know that most of that squad are deadwood who should be ****ed out at the first opportunity. For all we know ETH has been begging the Board to sell the lot of them. I know Utd accepted an offer for Fat Maguire last year so they are sort of trying.
The inability to shift players is one of Utd's problems and the manager is only partly responsible for that. Any new manager will be hamstrung by that same issue.

Saying that, Utd have regressed this year. In hindsight they probably over achieved last year, at least in terms of league position. Helped by Liverpool's implosion and Chelsea being Chelsea. Even at that, we still don't know what Utd's style of play is. 'Be **** but rely on the other side not taking their chances and then nick a goal' is not a tactic I have heard any manager use. They are also unable to shut down a game. The FAC semi was a prime example, but their CL campaign was just as bad, the two games against Copenhagen they led by 2 goals and got 1 point (I think). Freak results can happen and even the best teams lose from winning positions but at Utd it happens far too often and that is on the manager. Even if the players are all tactical muppets, and they aren't they are all seasoned international, he trains them every week and has done for two years. Look how quickly Emery turned Villa into well disciplined side and he has been there for less time than ETH has been at Utd (and Villa's players aren't as good).

It may be easier for the new guys to sack ETH, get whoever in and build the background set up to his liking and that way it is fresh start all round. That obviously relies on the new guy being half decent and not Moyesy mark 2. I dunno it's a gamble either way. I wouldn't be surprised if Utd fired him, nor would I be surprised if he got another year.
The fans are on the cusp of turning against him though and that's never a good place for a manager to be. Even at Liverpool's worst last year no one was calling for Klopp to go.

 

[theforceuk]

I hate the comparison with other managers that have got a tune out of Spurs and Villa players or whoever. Let's see how Spurs and Villa do next season, without the new manager bounce and besides both teams have been on the wrong end of some right thumpings. You say Man Utd players can play the way Ten Hag wants to, so what are you saying Ten Hag has got a bang on the head and forgot how to play?? He had them playing like it for 70 minutes against Wolves away and guess what we got a couple of injuries just after half time and went back to playing counter attacking football.

Either that or the players are refusing to fallow instructions, oh guess what we've been here before with the previous 3 managers, one is a club legend as a player but they had no problem throwing him under the bus.

Anyone who thinks Emery or Pep or anyone else could walk into that dressing room and get them playing high pressing probing and high intensity football is wrong and your wrong because some of those players can do it, but some isn't enough, you need a squad of players that can do it.

ETH may not be the man for the job and next season may be the same and in that scenario I will say he's not the man. But if you sack him now know one can say he's been given a fair crack. OGS and Jose were given a third season.

 

[weasel]

You misunderstood me. I wasnt saying Emery would work at Utd, I was saying he took the shambles that Villa were after Gerrard left and turned them into a well drilled outfit. And in less time than ETH has had at Utd.

Utd are either badly coached or the players are incapable/unwilling to stick to tactics. You have a point when you say they have bucked the previous managers under a bus, but in nearly two years surely it's not asking too much for ETH to have got some semblance of a style of play drilled into them? The fact half of his signings have been poor doesnt help his case. Yes, all managers have signings that don't work out (Naby Keita and Ferran Torres would be two great examples for Klopp and Pep) but his seem to be more miss than hit.

I'm not sure sacking him is the right call, but I can see the reasons why he would be sacked. I also can see the reasons why he has been hamstrung by the clusterfuck that goes on behind the scenes. I just cant help feel he should be doing better than he is.

 

[theforceuk]

Name half the signings that have been poor? Because it's not true. I can name one Antony.

 

[lejackal]

Got lucky with the third but you do have to swat these small clubs aside and plump up the goal difference

Can't see as Palmer would've made all that much difference if I'm honest.

 

[theforceuk]

Great result for Arsenal, was listening to 5 live on the way home tonight and they were defending Potch and saying he needs a structure around him. I don't disagree, but let's see what they say if Man Utd lose badly to Arsenal like that.

 

[Cazza]

Arsenal did well last night, as Chelsea have started to look decent. Did WHU a favour, too, although our chances of Europe are very slim now, after our dismal run in the league.

Can't believe ETH spent twice as much on Antony, as we did on Kudus- two players who played for him at Ajax. Kudus is a vastly superior player IMHO. Not even close. Who else has he signed? Hoijland (sp) has been very hit and miss + expensive, but can't think of the others.

 

[theforceuk]

Antony was available for £55 million when Ten Hag said get him in the June but the board fiddled about until Ajax had sold all the players they wanted to and bumped the price up. Know one wants to talk about the 10 goals and 4 assists he got in his first season before, it's just a massif pile on because it's Man Utd, he actually had a better first season than Jack Grealish at City.

Hojland is 20 cost £60 million and his market value is now £80 million, we actually have 3 of the top 15 young players in the world that value has gone up the most in the last 12 months, Mainoo and Garnacho being the other 2.

He signed Cassamiro for £60 million got us top 4 and won us the league cup last season, but has fallen off a cliff this season, you could argue he paid his transfer fee back last year. Mount, Malacia have both been injured, Mount is a good player just need to get him fit, Malacia is a back up left back that cost £15 million. Erickson was free and decent until Andy Carol committed GBH on him last season.

Then you have the keeper, dodgy start to say the least, but name me a Utd keeper that hasn't struggled to start with. Has been solid since December, but admittedly cost us a UCL qualification. I wouldn't call any of them poor signings except Antony and even he has had on for seen circumstances that ETH could never have seen coming.

You want to include Amrabat, VanVeghoof and Sirbitza, fine. All last minute loan deals that ETH didn't want but made do with.

Let's not forget he came in the summer Lingard, Mata, Matich, Cavani and Pogba all walked out the door for free and then Ronaldo decided he wanted away.

But yeah ETH has been fully backed and should be competitive with Liverpool, Arsenal and City, who were all miles better than Utd the season before ETH came in and have spent similar to Man Utd since.

 

[weasel]

Ok, going byGoogle these are ETH's signings at Utd….

Casemiro, Anthony, Eriksen, Martinez, Dubravka, Malacia, Sabitzer, Hojlund, Onana, Mount, Amrabat, Weghorst, Bayinder, Butland, Evans and Regulion.

I'll ignore loan signings as by definition they were only there for a year or six months. So out go Dubravka, Sabitzer, Amrabat, Weghorst, Butland and Regulion.

That leaves ten, taking them in order,

Casemiro. He cost big money (60m plus 10m in add ons, no idea if the 10m was paid) and has been there coming up for two years/seasons. Fair ****s, credit where it is due, he was very good in the first season. This season is a very different matter though, he's been very poor. For me I would want more than one good season for SIXTY MILLION quid. "You could argue he has paid his transfer fee back last year (in getting Utd in to the CL)". Not sure I can agree there, 60m plus a rumoured 300kpw just to get you in to the CL, where City only made £68.4m for winning it last year. Nah, sorry.

Anthony. He cost almost £90m making him one of the most expensive players in football history. That's global football, since the game was invented. That may not be on ETH, but I would assume the Board came back to him and said 'Ajax want 95m yoyos, that's X% of our budget are you happy to pay that?' Regardless you have to consider a players price when you asses how well his transfer has gone and frankly Anthony has been dog **** this season. He wasn't great for chunks of last season either, from memory he started well and faded badly (happy to be corrected if that is wrong). I don't know a single Utd fan who would call his transfer anything other than a disaster. He's up there with Pogba in terms of appalling value for money. And he gloats over beating a Championship side on penalties when his side were winning 3-0 when he came on lol.

Eriksen. Free, second season. Fair ****s, this one has been ok. Though I hear he wants out in the summer cos he wants to play more. That I respect in a player, not sitting on a bench collecting a wage but wanting to play. Maybe not done a lot this year but I'll give you his move as a success.

Martinez. £57m first season. A tad injury prone but a solid CB, so far so good. Happy to call him a success, so far.

Malacia. £15m second season. Has he even played a game yet? On the one hand I don't remember him playing so I can't really judge him, on the other two years and he's been injured for most of it. At best he's a very injury prone/unfortunate player, a worst, a waste of space. Delete as appropriate there. He can't be considered a success if he hasn't played though.

Hojlund, 70m first season. It's actually hard to pass judgement on him cos Utd just refuse point blank to give him any service. He is young and, in theory, should improve (like Darwin Nunez, please hit the ****ing target you squinty south American muppet) but so far I can't really judge him as he probably got more chances in a single training session at Atalanta last year than Utd have given him in a season.

Onana, 47m and first season. This one has to be a failure, so far. Nearly 50m on an area of Utd's team that wasn't the most urgently in need of upgrading and well, has he been an upgrade on DDG? DDG was no world beater but I don't remember him making as many mistakes as Onana has. He may come good, but as it stands now, his move has been a failure.

Mount. 60m first season. He's been injured for most of it, he's managed 12 games and 1 goal. I guess he will be a 'glass half full/glass half empty' player. If you are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and accept the injuries wrecked his season then he gets a 'jury still out'. If you look at his fee and his wages and compare that to 12 games and 1 goal, you say he's been a failure (so far).

Bayindir. 3m first season. Not sure he's played, back up keeper so should probably be treated along side the loan signings and ignored.

Evans. Free(?) first season back. If we ignore the optics of signing relegated Leicester's back up CB from last season (Liverpool signed Robertson and Winjandum from relegated teams so the fact their team went down doesn't make them bad players) i think this one is probably a success. He was bought as fourth or fifth choice CB, depending on how you rank the Utd CB options, and judging him against that….he hasn't let anyone down. No world beater, but solid and dependable. What you want from a back up CB really.

So that's, 3 successes in Martinez, Eriksen and Evans (two of whom were free) and being kind, 'jury still out' on Malacia, Hojlund and Mount, and three failures in Casemiro, Anthony and Onana. if we ignore the back up keeper.

In terms of spending since ETH has been there, Utd's net spend is roughly £300m. For context, Chelsea's net wasting of money is £630m (though no sane person would judge their club against that lot). Arsenal's is £290m. Spurs is £250m. Newcastle's is £240m. City's is £105m. Villa's £105m. WH's £207m. Liverpool's £145m and Forest's £200m (info care of football 365)
So, you have spent less than Chelsea although that's not hard. I'll also admit you have spent better than Chelsea, but again, that's not hard. Spending on par, broadly speaking, with Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle. And twice the level of Pool.


As for last night's game. **** me Chelsea are a shower of shite. That was gutless. Those players should all be fined for bending over like that. Arsenal were good, and deserved to win, but **** me Chelsea didn't even try. How Nicolas Jackson gets a job as a professional footballer I will never know. He is one of the worst players I have ever seen. He's Jason Lee levels of ****. He's also a lazy bastard. I lost track of how often the Arsenal CB's just stepped infront of him cos he was on the back foot. EVERY SINGLE TIME he just watched them walk off with the ball. He didnt try and hold them off or chase them down. He just watched as they went on the attack. Waduwake and Mudryk were little better. That has to be the worst front three in the PL. Luton and Sheff Utd's front lines aren't great but at least they TRY.

Ohh and did he put in a leg breaker early in the game? I missed the first 20mins.

And Poch should be getting a lot more flack than he is. Yes, Chelsea are a shambles, so are Utd, but a managers basic job is motivation and that was a disgrace. Poch deserves to be getting dogs abuse for that.

 

[theforceuk]

You've added on about 10% for each signing, can tell your a Liverpool fan. I think I've already given my opinion on Eric's signings and I didn't mention Martinez before because he's been a great signing. I don't know how you judge ETH on net spend? Man Utd are crap at selling players because they over pay in wages, so straight away he's hamstrung from the previous 9 years. And if you're judging signings on injury's then pretty much every signing that we've made has been poor because we've had over 60 injuries this season. What is ETH supposed to be a medical expert now? Or is that up to the medical department which has been a cluster of **** for well over a decade. Literally sent Cassamiro on International duty injured! Last season ETH had a great first season, this season he's had to deal with a ridiculous number of injuries, just like Klopp last season, when some Liverpool fans were shouting Klopp out……….and they missed out on UCL.

It's brilliant the biased against Man Utd, we can't even celebrate getting to an FA Cup final without being down trodden. Since when did that happen. Antony is a **** house and the club needs more of them. Man Utd, hated, adored but never ignored.

 

[lejackal]

Ohh and did he put in a leg breaker early in the game? I missed the first 20mins.

 

[weasel]

You've added on about 10% for each signing, can tell your a Liverpool fanl

Data as per Google as I said in my post. There may be a bit of rounding and some fees I had to convert from Euro into proper money, but I'd be amazed if all are out by 10%. Although, very few transfer fees are announced these days and most have add ons etc.

I don't know how you judge ETH on net spend? Man Utd are crap at selling players because they over pay in wages, so straight away he's hamstrung from the previous 9 years. And if you're judging signings on injury's then pretty much every signing that we've made has been poor because we've had over 60 injuries this season. What is ETH supposed to be a medical expert now?

Ehh YOU brought up how much he had spent, not me. I'm just showing how he has spent, roughly, the same as Arsenal etc. and half of what Liverpool spent.
As far as judging signings on injury records, ehhh if the player is permanently injured, like Malacia or the Ox and Keita at Liverpool, you can't exactly say they have been a success. You don't buy a player to pay him a salary just to keep your medical department busy. The injuries may not be the players fault, but you can't exactly say 'brilliant signing, just a shame he hadn't managed a single minute in 15 years cos he accidentally cut his own leg off with that chainsaw.'

just like Klopp last season, when some Liverpool fans were shouting Klopp out……….and they missed out on UCL.

No sensible Liverpool was saying that. A few morons on twitter may have been but they are the same idiots who are probably calling Klopp a a legend now, and the type of keyboard idiots that social media and all clubs seem to attract.

It's brilliant the biased against Man Utd, we can't even celebrate getting to an FA Cup final without being down trodden. Since when did that happen. Antony is a **** house and the club needs more of them. Man Utd, hated, adored but never ignored.

Utd are the country's most supported club (albeit that will probably change in 10-15yrs when all the kids growing up now start supporting City). Hence the media focus more on them as "Utd" equals clicks and clicks equal money.

As for not being allowed to celebrate making an FAC final. It's a tricky one. Yeah, an FAC final is an achievement and fair ****s. But, no one can deny that was a pretty unconvincing way to make it to the final. The fact most neutrals, and a lot of Utd fans, think Coventry were very unlucky must surely temper any celebration?
Anthony running off (when Utd qualified) cupping his ears to the Coventry players was crass and reflected very badly on him. Especially given the score when he came on. That was why I mentioned it

 

[weasel]

View attachment 188491

Let me guess, VAR said he got the ball?

 

[lejackal]

Let me guess, VAR said he got the ball?

Not even a yellow

 

[theforceuk]

@weasel I googled the cost of Antony and it's £81 million plus add ons which I don't think you can count? I think you're working in Euros not pounds. As I said before he's obviously a terrible signing so far and I never mentioned net spend, I mentioned how ETH has had about the same budget as all the other top clubs who I think we can all agree had better squads to start with and managers in place for years. Logic says Man Utd will never catch up with there rivals with that strategy.

Anyway, Sheffield Utd tonight, one of the worst PL sides in history. Man Utd are 9 points away from beating the points total of the season before ETH came in.

Man Utd only won 5 games at home in the league this season, terrible.

I'm waiting patiently for the Man Utd fan guide for when it's appropriate to celebrate a FA Cup semi final victory.
Perhaps a Liverpool fan can wright it, one should know seeing as 4 out of the last 5 domestic cups won by Liverpool were by penalty shoot outs.

 

[weasel]

Not even a yellow

Jesus that's a red all day long.

@weasel I googled the cost of Antony and it's £81 million plus add ons which I don't think you can count? I think you're working in Euros not pounds. As I said before he's obviously a terrible signing so far and I never mentioned net spend, I mentioned how ETH has had about the same budget as all the other top clubs who I think we can all agree had better squads to start with and managers in place for years. Logic says Man Utd will never catch up with there rivals with that strategy.

Anyway, Sheffield Utd tonight, one of the worst PL sides in history. Man Utd are 9 points away from beating the points total of the season before ETH came in.

Man Utd only won 5 games at home in the league this season, terrible.

I'm waiting patiently for the Man Utd fan guide for when it's appropriate to celebrate a FA Cup semi final victory.
Perhaps a Liverpool fan can wright it, one should know seeing as 4 out of the last 5 domestic cups won by Liverpool were by penalty shoot outs.

95m Euros, which yeah fair ****s I got my mental arithmetic well wrong there, is about 82m depending on the exchange rate used. My bad. You're right, I'm wrong.

Similar spend to Spurs and Newcastle, who probably didn't have better squads and didn't have managers in place for years before ETH. But, I suspect we're not going to agree on any of this, so I'll just leave it there before we bore everyone else (even more than we normally do) lol

Is that stat on Utd's home PL form right? Jesus, that is bad.

As for when you can celebrate, I would say muted celebrations are what's called for under the circumstances.
And you should know by now, Liverpool don't like doing things the easy way. Why win a final comfortably when you can make your fans suffer for 120mins?

Rumours of Arne Slot of Feyenoord for Pool. I know FA about him, bar he has done a decent job at Feyenoord. The bloke on Shoutsport seemed to think he was a good fit for Pool, but then when do they ever say "nah, he's ****, they can do much better"? He did point out that the record of Dutch managers coming to the PL isn't great. But let's be fair, the odds must be quite high that whoever gets the job will be gone in 18-24months.

 

[theforceuk]

Spurs have been better than us for years! And Newcastle are doing worse than us!

I didn't celebrate, well I punched the air and went yes, got up and cracked on with the Sunday roast. I'll celebrate if Man City come down with chronic food poisoning the day of the cup final and Man Utd some how manage to win. But until then there's not much to celebrate if your a Man Utd fan at the moment, but who is anyone to tell a fan when and when not to celebrate and even more be embarrassed for doing so, ridiculous cancel culture of 2024.

 

[weasel]

That probably would have been the extent of my celebrations too. Anthony and his cupping his ears is prime ballbag behaviour, but he has always struck me as a bit of a dick. And, yes, all clubs have them. Suarez being a prime example at Pool.

On that depressing note. **** ME THAT WAS SHITE.
When Everton lost 4 or 5 to Chelsea I said they would turn it on against Pool, but I wasn't expecting Pool to be sooooo timid. For a team, theoretically, in a title race that was a shameful a capitulation as I have seen.
Salah and Nunez are on a par with Jackson ATM. None of them could hit a barn door and their general match contributions are negligible. When that's two thirds of your fit strike force, you are in trouble. Gakpo's missus should have crossed her legs for 24 hours.

Still, City were never going to drop any points anyway and Arsenal's GD is miles better. But that performance was pathetic.

I'd happily see Jayden Danns start up front against WH on Sat. If he doesnt hide (hello, Mo) and doesn't knock every pass straight back to the guy who passed it to him (hello, again, Mo! or even tries the novel tactic of shooting on target and not straight at the keeper (hello Darwin) he'll be an improvement. Stick the tea-lady up beside him and we'll be better off than we are with Salah and Nunez ATM.

 

[lejackal]

Arne Slot then @weasel - thoughts?